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Nintendo unhappy with development of Metroid Prime 4, starting over with Retro Studios developing
News reported by 
(Editor-in-chief)
January 25, 2019, 15:36
 

This is not a rumor, Nintendo themselves just released a video with Takahashi explaining the situation. This is a huge chunk of transparency from Nintendo about behind the scenes happenings. Apparently it wasn't going well so it seems they are straight up giving it back to Retro Studios who will start development from the beginning again.

As some of you probably know, I was very wary of the Metroid Prime 4 is coming but we won't tell you who is making it announcement (eventually revealed to be some Namco-Bandai staff?), and was keeping my hopes up but had some skepticism that it wouldn't be done right. Unfortunately, my skepticism was not unfounded. On the other hand, maybe it was, because Nintendo seems to understand that this is a big game and they can't just throw anything out there. They clearly understand the stakes here, and seem to be doing what they need to do to make it high quality.

Anyway, the negative here is that with development starting over it'll probably be late 2020 at the earliest that we see this game, more likely 2021 or 2022. It's ok, I can wait for an amazing Metroid Prime trilogy follow-up.



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01/25/19, 15:36   Edited:  01/25/19, 18:04
 
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Zero said:
@TheBigG753 But do we know for sure the full weight of Retro is behind Prime 4 now? I hope so but the announcement was weird and it kind of sounded to me like it was just Retro leading that... other team.
I'm mostly basing it off of this Twitter thread among other reporting Eurogamer, etc. did. Obviously nothing official from Nintendo (I don't believe they ever uttered the words "Bandai Namco" as being the game's original developer).

J.K. Riki said:
Hinph said:
Comparing the NSMB games to Rayman Origins and Legends is also equally heartbreaking. Why does Nintendo have to do Mario like that?

There we can agree. If the new 2D Mario games had 1/20th of the charm of Legends we would have an incredible game on our hands. As it stands it feels like one is a phoned-in generic work while the other has the utmost care put into it.
Third-ed. The NSMB games are great (NSMBU in particular) but they end up running together in my mind, due in part to how many they released in a relatively short time, but mainly because of the boilerplate art-style. They don't stand out from the pack, despite being really well-made 2D Mario games.

Posted by 
 on: 08/17/20, 17:58
Super off topic at this point, but you need not look any further than Nintendo's own Mario Kart 8 to see how good they are at building Mario's world. They do more for the Mario universe in that game alone than they've done in so many others. The mining shy guys, the Electrodrome dance club, and many others help really cement what Mario's world looks like.

Posted by 
 on: 08/18/20, 00:11
@J.K. Riki

Man, I'd weep if we got a 2D Mario game with that sort of presentation.

I still like the NSMB games well enough (except for NSMB2, which is totally forgettable with the weakest amateur ass level design in the series and that awful coin gimmick that adds nothing to the formula), but it's pretty sad how much money those games brought in that Nintendo refused to put back into the development of the next title. Not even some new music? I hope we someday get a true Super Mario Bros sequel with a budget and development passion worthy of the series.

Posted by 
 on: 08/18/20, 02:48
To add to the discussion about Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze and the NEW Super Mario Bros. games, I really like this video from Mark Brown. Really wish we could get another Donkey Kong Country game, and a 2D Mario game with the same level of imagination, and not so paint-by-numbers.



Posted by 
 on: 08/18/20, 04:35
That's a great video by the way.

I really thought they might have headed that way after Yoshi's Island. With that game, they did all sorts of things like having a unique art style, use background and 3D elements...mainly being kind of unpredictable in a way. While those ideas stayed strong in the 3D Mario games, they just never bothered to go that way with 2D games. I wonder if they feared that going full 3D would ruin the precision of the 2D games...but then they kind of squash that idea by putting 3D World as a setting in Mario Maker 2.

Anyway...Metroid, am I right? Actually, speaking of 3D World, I think Other M was kind of a predecessor to that game in a way. There's some brilliant moments in that game that really deserve revisiting, but I don't know if we'll ever see it again. When Nintendo segregates their 2D and 3D games, I'm not sure we'll see these kind of "in-between" titles.

Posted by 
 on: 08/18/20, 04:54
@Brick

Yeah, that level design variety combined with the masterful design makes that a game I'll be going back to for the remainder of my years. I really hope some of that talent is still there working on Prime 4.

Posted by 
 on: 08/18/20, 06:24
Here's a question for all of you... would you prefer Metroid Prime 4 adhere closely to the 3D Metroidvania formula or would you want it to go full Breath of the Wild for the series and really approach the series in a different manner?

While Other M was not well received, Metroid's formula has not reached the stagnation feeling that 3D Zelda games started to hit. One primary reason for that though is due to the fact we weren't getting as many of them. At the same time revamping the series means either doing something no one really has ever thought of or going full open world, and perhaps people won't be as receptive to that idea especially given the long wait since the last 3D Metroid game. Plus would open world really fit in with Metroid as it did with Zelda? On the other hand would fans be satisfied if Metroid Prime 4 really boils down to another Metroid Prime game but with a few new, but ultimately not revolutionary, features?

Posted by 
 on: 08/18/20, 07:48
I think if they're calling it Metroid Prime 4, I'd expect it to play like the previous Metroid Prime games. Otherwise, I'd call a bit of "false advertising." I don't think "Prime" only relates to the the game's general plot revolving around Metroid Prime itself (and subsequently Dark Samus and all of that), but it also is synonymous with a pretty concrete gaming style and universe that we've seen across 5 or 6 different games.

I actually do think that Metroid has gotten a little stagnant. I think Prime 4 will be refreshing because it's been so long, but even still, I thought Samus Returns was a fairly safe and predictable game. Even Other M played it incredibly safe in regards to its gameplay, despite being in 3D. Morph Ball, Missiles, Charge beam, etc....it was all the same thing with a new coat of paint.

I think there's some "breath of fresh air" Metroid game that combines gameplay elements from Other M, with atmosphere from Prime, and a hands-off narrative...but I don't know if and when we'll ever see it.

Posted by 
 on: 08/18/20, 14:05
@CPA Wei I just basically want them to go back to Prime 1 and think about why it was one of the best damn video games ever made and move forward from there. Prime 2 and 3 started moving more and more away from that winning formula, and we haven't seen a Prime game since 3, so it's not like I feel like the series needs some massive change now.

Metroidvanias are super overdone but are 3D Metroidvanias even a thing really? I know there are non-linear games in 3D but they tend to be more "open world". The only one I can think of offhand that I'd call a Metroidvania was Batman Arkham Asylum and then they switched to open world for Arkham City right away.

Posted by 
 on: 08/18/20, 16:46
@Zero Hopefully they see why, because I think it's the same reason Super Metroid was so good - it's hands off and allows the player some freedom, but it doesn't completely gate off certain sections from each other. I suppose Nintendo just finds it too difficult to make games like that anymore, at least based on every Metroid game after Super and (to a lesser extent) Prime. Prime 2, Fusion, Zero Mission, etc...they all basically have "sections" that you complete and don't really come back to. You need those "aha" moments that make you want to revisit previous areas and find new content.

Other M actually wasn't awful with this, despite how gated off its sections were. There are some really enjoyable spots to discover later in the game once you've collected more gear, especially with the Speed Booster, which makes a great appearance here.

Posted by 
 on: 08/18/20, 20:21
Zero said:
Metroidvanias are super overdone but are 3D Metroidvanias even a thing really?

Right?! Even the "vania" part of the genre name makes no sense when referencing a 3D game since Konami tragically never gave us a proper 3D SotN style game in the Castlevania series. There's definitely a lot of 3D games with elements from the genre but very few that meet all of the criteria to be labeled as a Metroidvania. I guess that's because the vast majority of the games in the genre are made by little indie teams and it isn't easy to make a 3D game like this.

With that fact in mind, 3D Metroidvania games are far from played out and I don't want Prime 4 to stray too far from the original Prime formula. I'm sure they can still fill the game with new ideas to keep everything fresh. We don't need yet another massive open world game, speaking of overdone...

Posted by 
 on: 08/19/20, 00:10   Edited:  08/19/20, 00:12
Zero said:
Metroidvanias are super overdone but are 3D Metroidvanias even a thing really? I know there are non-linear games in 3D but they tend to be more "open world". The only one I can think of offhand that I'd call a Metroidvania was Batman Arkham Asylum and then they switched to open world for Arkham City right away.
For years Arkham Asylum was really the only example of 3D Metroid(vanias) outside of actual Metroid games, but we've gotten a few more in recent years. God of War 2018 and Control, and they're both really good! There's also Prey, which isn't really a Metroidvania (it's a System Shock/Deus Ex-style immersive sim) but it's a first-person adventure set in a space station that can be explored non-linearly from the start. I highly recommend each of them.

EDIT: I think Jedi Fallen Order as well falls under the same category of 3D Metroidvania. I haven't played it though.

I hope it's a trend and we get more of these types of games in 3D. They're far more appealing to me than super-linear games or fully open-world games.

Posted by 
 on: 08/19/20, 01:43   Edited:  08/19/20, 01:46
Banjo Kazooie bruh. Best Metroidvania there is.

Posted by 
 on: 08/19/20, 02:22
I'll use my stock answer - I want Fusion in 3D! Neon-flavored sci-fi, maybe third-person, with tons of fast action and, for god(s) sake, some bubbles!

Posted by 
 on: 08/19/20, 03:02
@TheBigG753 I just started Jedi: Fallen Order today! It's so far more similar to something like Dark Souls than Metroid. It's very Metroid Prime in terms of how its map looks, and you can trigger shortcuts so that you don't have to repeat areas over and over. But it feels more like Dark Souls in that you usually have somewhere to get to, and you're kind of just working your way towards the next Meditation Point. I guess Metroid is like that with Save Rooms, but this feels a little bit more closed in and deliberate. There DO seem to be little trails off the beaten path that you can explore. In one instance, going off the beaten trail led to fighting a very difficult enemy. I think it was some kind of optional fight, because there was a bit more fanfare around it. I think I could've skipped it though.

I've only completed the first main area, so I don't know how the rest of the game unfolds. I assume I'll be coming back here (or will have the option to), since there were some things I couldn't do yet. Looked like maybe something on my droid needed to be repaired or something.

It IS Metroidy in terms of how it handled one of my abilities...but I don't know if this trend will continue throughout the game. I haven't been able to "live" in an area long enough to see if the Metroid feeling really completely kicks in. The combat, in a way, reminds me of some of the combat in Metroid Prime 2, where you'd fight the guys in the swamp that charge at you.

It feels like one part Metroid Prime, one part Dark Souls, one part Arkham Asylum, and lots of Star Wars. The combat is not my favorite in the world, but it just seems like some of that is learning enemy patterns. So far I feel like I've stumbled my way through it. Dodging seems to be more preferred to parrying. I'm playing on the "hard" difficulty though, so parry timing is tighter than on "normal."

Posted by 
 on: 08/19/20, 03:36   Edited:  08/19/20, 03:37
@Secret_Tunnel

Whoa.... Banjo-Kazooie really is rather metroidvania-like isn't it? I never really thought of that before. That level of exploration, returning to areas with new powers, the general power-up and moves progression...

I really wish Microsoft would commission a proper sequel to Banjo-Tooie or just sell the property to Nintendo. Then I'd need to wish that they would want to make one anyway.

Posted by 
 on: 08/24/20, 18:10
I feel like the only area of BK that really feels Metroid like is Gruntilda's Lair, at least in the first game. There's lots of exploration to be had in the game, for sure, but you can pretty much complete every area at the get go and eliminate any kind of backtracking. Tooie definitely has that kind of stuff going on, and feels even more Metroid-like given that the worlds themselves actually connect together, to an extent.

I think what makes it feel less like Metroid to me is that it's more of a sandbox. I think one thing that makes Metroid Metroid is that it's kind of an open game, but it's really comprised of a series of linear paths. Very rarely in Metroid are you looking out over a vista with a list of places you see in front of you. Each Metroid game, for me at least, is about routing and traversal. I kind of feel like (for the most part) the Banjo games don't really have this aspect, and the Metroid similarities tend to stop at the concept of discovering collectibles and revisiting areas. Once you get down to the nitty gritty, I think BK tends to have more in common with Zelda! It has an emphasis on an open world, with smaller more concentrated areas/activities that make up the bulk of the game's gameplay. Each world in BK is kind of like its own Zelda game, where you have an "overworld", with many "dungeons" (or places of interest) that you can discover and explore. And within each world, you usually have to get some new move that lets you interact with the world in a different way, not unlike how an item in Zelda might allow you to complete a dungeon. And then usually you're using that move to complete the world's primary challenges.

Then again, Metroid and Zelda just plain have a lot in common, so yeah, BK definitely has a huge influence from both of them. I'm sure someone must have written their college thesis on this at this point.

Posted by 
 on: 08/24/20, 22:18
@DrFinkelstein

It really confuses me that Microsoft doesn't use their Rare IP more often. It could have really helped fill in a lot of the genres they are lacking in with their first party lineup and help get more mass appeal for their consoles. It's not like the broken shell of its former self developer has to work on these series themselves.

I guess we just got a Battletoads game, but it's sad that they saw it as nothing more worthy than handing off to some nobody indie team that apparently failed in the revival.

Posted by 
 on: 08/25/20, 02:55
@DrFinkelstein

I think most companies under-utilize their IPs, but you are spot on that MS leaves all the incredible RARE properties in the closet when they could be making at least a decent amount of money with them. Heck, at this point that's almost all RARE is good for, since everyone has left. Milk those IPs! I'd love to see another BK, Blast Corps, Jet Force Gemini, and even Perfect Dark! Why are they being wasted??

Posted by 
 on: 08/25/20, 06:08
Rareware did finally bring back Battletoads I guess. Not sure if the new one is any good or not.

Posted by 
 on: 08/25/20, 16:16
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