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03/28/15, 00:25 |
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03/28/15, 00:30 |
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@V_sI'm not going to go through the whole list, because, quite frankly I don't have time, but I'm going to use Ocarina to illustrate how silly this 'debate' is. MLB Presents Ken Griffey, Jr. and Zelda 64 will both see delays, each for its own unique reason, Howard Lincoln, Nintendo's chairman, said.
These two, in addition to Banjo-Kazooie's delay would seem to have caused near disaster to Nintendo's winter line-up. But Diddy Kong Racing will replace Banjo-Kazooie in the November 24 time-slot, and also will be backed by a $20 million advertising budget.
Zelda, as was reported last week by N64.com, will arrive as a 32 megabyte cartridge, a huge jump in size. Lincoln explained that the development staff at Nintendo Ltd Co. will simply need more time to ensure an appropriate amount of debugging and the game's perfection.
Although no formal date had been announced, Nintendo had previously announced that Zelda would arrive in the first quarter of 1998. Now, it seems, the game is scheduled for a later date, sometime in the second quarter 1998. April or May seem most likely. Now 2 things from this are clear: One, this absolutely was a delay, as described by Nintendo themselves. No amount of rationalising on your part will change that. Two, 'No formal date', from the context, means no exact date like 'Nov 24 1997'. It's a vague date like '1st or 2nd quarter 1998', or even vaguer 2015. It's a bit silly to claim that previous Zelda's have had no 'definitive' release date so the delays don't really count, yet a vague as heck release statement of '2015' counts as definitive and thus a 'real' delay. Big Zelda games are notorious for delays. I honestly don't know why this is even an argument. Like everyone else says, it's the lack of E3 appearance that's really surprising.
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on: 03/29/15, 22:17 |
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@InfinitywaveYep, as a gamer who mostly enjoys single player and doesn't have a lot of IRL friends to play co-op with the number of new games geared towards my taste are extremely low. Factor in that I don't like RTS games (Pikmin) or character action games (Wonderful 101, Bayonetta) then I don't really have much to play on a system that I really do enjoy playing games on. Of course I enjoy Mario Kart and Smash although I'm not good enough at either of those games to be competitive online, so playing by myself gets a little old. I'm really putting a lot of my eggs into the Splatoon basket, that game looks amazing, and since it's a new game where everyone will start on a level playing field I might actually be able to enjoy the online! Nothing against the people who have put thousands of hours into Kart and Smash, y'all have incredible skills and deserve to win, but I will never, ever catch up. 
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on: 03/29/15, 22:24 |
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03/29/15, 22:25 |
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Well, count me as one of the naive fools who dared believe Nintendo's repeated target of 2015. Also count me as an even bigger fool for thinking 2015 is still a possibility. As Fink clearly points out in the OP, the message from Aonuma only states that 2015 is no longer their main target. If skipping E3 means not wasting any extra development time and maybe - just maybe - still releasing in 2015, I'm all for it. But if it doesn't come out till next year, that's fine too. Release it when it's finished.
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on: 03/29/15, 22:43 |
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@deathly_hallows I'm really hopeful about Splatoon too. The singleplayer campaign looks sweet.
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on: 03/30/15, 00:51 |
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Yeah, I really hope Splatoon can secure a place as an important IP for Nintendo... Nintendo needs to advertises the product appropriately. It's a bit of an uphill battle launching a new IP on a platform that isn't performing so hot, but hopefully its quality shines through. It fills a pretty big genre hole in Nintendo's first party lineup when you think about it.
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on: 03/30/15, 01:04 |
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@HinphHopefully Spatoon is a better genre-hole plugger than Geist. I still think Metroid Prime Hunters should be given a shot on consoles, that game was so freaking cool with all the different bounty hunters each with their own weapons and morph abilities. The thing that really brought it down was that a lot of people found the controls too uncomfortable, that wouldn't be a problem on Wii U that has not only dual analog but IR control options as well. Either that or a follow up to GoldenEye 007 on Wii, that game ruled! So fun.
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on: 03/30/15, 01:31 |
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@deathly_hallowsYeah, Hunters does deserve another entry... as its own thing. I think, so far, multiplayer in echoes felt tacked onto a singleplayer experience and singleplayer in Hunters felt tacked onto a multiplayer experience. I'm really hoping that the singleplayer in Splatoon doesn't feel the same.
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on: 03/30/15, 01:44 |
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03/30/15, 01:44 |
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@ShadowlinkThere's two problems here: 1) It seems like you're misunderstanding me. If Nintendo did say that Ocarina of Time was due to be released in the first quarter of 1998 and then failed to meet that window, that would count what I'm saying a delay is. 2) I can't find any source from Nintendo saying that Ocarina of Time was supposed to be released in the first quarter of 1998. If you can find a source, I'll happily concede that there's been 3 Zelda games that have been delayed from a specified release window rather than just 2, but I'm having no luck finding it. I don't mean to misinterpret how you're interpreting my posts, but it seems like you're ignoring my previous post where I mentioned that it seems unreasonable to call something a delay when Nintendo has made no indication as to when the game is supposed to be released. If Nintendo says the game is coming out "Soon", but it comes out in two years (which would be an extremely rare extreme), then I understand someone arguing that this is a delay, but we can't say that it truly is a delay because that might be what Nintendo meant when they said "Soon". (Two years could certainly count as "soon" for a game that took 6 years to create, for example; note: this example is not in reference to any actual game). But if Nintendo says "the game is going to be out in two years" and the game gets released in three years, that's a delay. If Nintendo says it's going to be released in 2015 and then it doesn't get released in 2015, that's a delay. As far as I have been able to find through all of the research I have done, Nintendo themselves have only ever set such a release window that they failed to meet for two Zelda games: TP and Zelda Wii U.
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on: 03/30/15, 03:52 |
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03/30/15, 03:54 |
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V_s said:2) I can't find any source from Nintendo saying that Ocarina of Time was supposed to be released in the first quarter of 1998. If you can find a source, I'll happily concede that there's been 3 Zelda games that have been delayed from a specified release window rather than just 2, but I'm having no luck finding it. What was wrong with the source I just posted? Howard Lincoln himself. Come on. Your standards of proof here are ridiculous. I'm not misunderstanding your posts at all. I'm questioning your ridiculous definition of what apparently constitutes an official 'delay'. If Nintendo says 'we're aiming for the holiday period' and it hits the next year, that's a delay. If they say 'we're aiming for 2010' and it hits a year later in November 2011, that's a delay. I'm sorry if their statements aren't concrete enough for your liking (and utterly mystified as to how you can claim in the same breath that '2015' is concrete), but it's widely accepted that Nintendo has a reputation for delaying Zelda games, or at least its main 3D console entries. If you want to keep on arguing that they weren't 'real' delays, then there's really not much more for me to say on this.
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on: 03/30/15, 04:03 |
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03/30/15, 04:05 |
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@V_s@ShadowlinkYou guys are gonna have a hard time finding a better source for something someone said in 1997 than whatever article Shadowlink shadowlinked to either way. Best bet would probably be an issue of Nintendo Power from around then. I'm guessing back in those days Nintendo operated a lot differently when it came to ensuring that there was a definitive narrative with news and dates that everyone knew. Like, nobody even knows what day the original Super Mario Bros. came out. That's crazy! Howard Lincoln probably just said whatever he felt like at any given moment and people took his word for it. Like when amateur journalists write RUMOR articles based off of something a booth attendant told them at PAX.
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on: 03/30/15, 04:17 |
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Shadowlink said:What was wrong with the source I just posted? Howard Lincoln himself. Howard Lincoln isn't the one saying that OoT is expected in the first quarter of 1998 in the source you provided. "IGN Staff" is who is making that assertion. It's a secondhand source. Shadowlink said:If Nintendo says 'we're aiming for the holiday period' and it hits the next year, that's a delay. If they say 'we're aiming for 2010' and it hits a year later in November 2011, that's a delay. This statement of yours proves that you're misunderstanding me. Why do you think my standards are ridiculous and then parrot my standards right back to me as your own standards? You're trying to argue that I'm wrong by saying you agree with me. Personally, that seems a little ridiculous to me. I never said that 2015 is "concrete". I only said that it's a release window provided by Nintendo. Please, there's no need to respond so hostilely to me simply because you don't like what you think I'm saying. I understand that Nintendo has a reputation for delaying Zelda games, but I'm simply trying to scrutinize that stereotype a little bit. (Nintendo also has a stereotype of always having the weakest console and having nothing but kiddy games, but we both know those aren't true.) Now if you had originally said it's no surprise that this game is delayed because Nintendo usually delays 3-D console Zelda games, maybe I wouldn't have even bothered saying what I said because 2 (or 3) out of 6 is a lot more regular than 2 (or 3) out of 18, even if it isn't the majority. But Nintendo constantly delaying Zelda games has become a stereotype that isn't founded on hard facts unless our definition of "delay" is "the game not being released when the general audience member personally believes it should be released".
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on: 03/30/15, 05:14 |
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03/30/15, 05:17 |
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@V_sI'm not meaning to be hostile, I just genuinely don't understand this stance of 'it's not a delay' because of some arbitrary set of criteria you've decided on, that apparently doesn't apply to their '2015' statement. I mean when you say stuff like this: This statement of yours proves that you're misunderstanding me. Why do you think my standards are ridiculous and then parrot my standards right back to me as your own standards? That's exactly my point. Nintendo have said these things. They should be counted as delays. But for some reason, you're not accepting it. I mean it feels like in order to satisfy you on this, I feel like I have to get a written statement that's been witnessed, countersigned and dated by Shigeru Miyamoto, Eiji Aonuma, and the ghost of Hiroshi Yamauchi. It shouldn't be that hard. What I've posted should be good enough for you. Yet it isn't. Like ST said, finding a source that meets your standards might be tricky. We could always try flipping this on it's head though- If IGN and the rest of the gaming community have been constantly reporting these release timeframes falsley, is there any record of Nintendo actually coming out and correcting the record? Like for example, 'Oh we see you guys seem to think we're planning to have Skyward Sword ready for release in 2010- That's totally not the case though, you must have misunderstood'. I just find it pretty hard to believe that we've all gotten it so wrong for so many years. This is *why* the sterotype exists. But it does raise the question as to why you think the sterotype such as it is needs to be scruitinised. Let's hypothetically say that you're correct...And then what? If for example we successfully challenge the kiddy console sterotype, tit may result in people taking Nintendo's offerings more seriously. More consumers, more money for Nintendo, more chance of further similar products appearing later. It's win win. When it comes to this issue though, I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to achieve.
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on: 03/30/15, 05:54 |
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Shadowlink said:that apparently doesn't apply to their '2015' statement. I feel like you must be skipping over parts of my post then, because I've said several times now that it does apply to their 2015 statement. That's why I've been saying that Zelda Wii U is clearly a delay. Why do you keep insisting that I'm not counting it as a delay?
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on: 03/30/15, 17:54 |
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Hinph said:Yeah, I really hope Splatoon can secure a place as an important IP for Nintendo... Nintendo needs to advertises the product appropriately. I've been thinking about this lately and I really hope they put a big effort into making this game have its own identity. Its been a while since I've seen a Nintendo commercial or marketing technique that really stood out. Those Smash Brother and creepy Majora's Mask commercials during the N64 era come to mind. Even if they are super cheesy thats fine, just something different than the rest. It would stir up curiosity and ultimately generate a bigger fanbase.
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on: 03/30/15, 18:08 |
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Does anyone else find it weird that Splatoon is ostensibly a month away and there is no firm release date? I wonder if there's a chance it could get delayed? Perhaps with Zelda vacating the Fall space this will effect their release schedule for the whole year? If it does get delayed I hope it's only a month or two, a June or July release would suit me just fine. But I don't want them to wait until October or November and get buried by other big releases. I feel like this is a game that might lure people away from other platforms for but it needs a window. EDIT: on a side note it's time for a Direct! I want updates on lots of stuff, like let's see some Star Fox footage, get me excited about stuff Nintendo!
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on: 03/30/15, 18:16 |
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03/30/15, 18:18 |
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@deathly_hallowsI don't think it'll be delayed. As for new Directs, I'm not expecting any that aren't game-specific before E3.
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on: 03/30/15, 19:54 |
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@DeputyVanHalenBut I want to pre-order it so it's ready for the pre-download thing, just like I pre-orded Uncharted 4 which is at least a year away lololol.
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on: 03/30/15, 20:04 |
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I don't want to be a downer, but what can Splatoon really do for the Wii U at this point? It's sort of destined to, at best, be a great title that a small amount of people buy and love. It's not going to sell Wii Us or anything.
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on: 03/30/15, 20:16 |
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@ZeroYeah probably, but one of the common complaints about Wii U is that there aren't many new experiences on the systems, it's mainly just good versions of games you've already played on Wii or 3DS. So to someone on the fence this could help push them over... if it reviews well and gets some good buzz (which is one of the reasons I think it's unfortunate about the voice chat thing, reviewers are going to surely dock some points for missing a "standard feature" for online games, whether it's right or wrong).
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on: 03/30/15, 20:25 |
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I agree. Realistically the Wii U is pretty much dead at this point to anyone who doesn't already own one. I doubt even Zelda is going to move many units now since I'm already seeing all over the place that everyone thinks this is going to be Twilight Princess all over again and it'll end up being a launch game for the next console with the Wii U probably getting a gimped version. Not saying that I necessarily believe that, but it seems to be the prevailing opinion right now.
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on: 03/30/15, 20:29 |
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03/30/15, 20:29 |
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