I think this is a good move, Mario will definitely push more sales than Nintendo Land. If there is any game Nintendo could lean on for support it would be NSMBU. They squeezed as many sales out of the standalone game ast they could. And when new owners set up their console and see how much fun people are having with Nintendo Landon Miiverse, they can go out and buy that game at a good price (or get it from the eShop).
I hear you. A couple of issues I have with that line of reasoning:
First, basically you're saying we can't prove anything so why bother talking about it. Yeah, it's a subjective opinion to say the art style is bad. Sure. But, you know, it's a subjective opinion to say the Mega Man box art was terrible, too. So, the fact that art is subjective doesn't mean there can't be widely held opinions or that art style has no effect on the success of a game.
I'll put it another way: Even if you like the art style, can you at least see where it might be controversial with some gamers? Does it seem like a love it or hate it thing? Because if you can look at it that way, then you might still be able to see my point. Instead of the Wii Sports approach, which was darn near artless, they took an approach that was more divisive. I don't see the wisdom in that.
These are just my opinions/interpretations, of course. I'm not certain I'm right. But, like all internet commenters, I think I am. ;)
As for online multi changing the nature of development... yeah, I hear Nintendo say stuff like that all the time, too. Frankly, it sounds like they're overthinking it to me. They didn't have to reimagine Mario Kart multiplayer to bring it online. Online Mario Kart plays exactly like you'd expect it to. Same principal here. There's not a fundamental difference between how Metroid in Nintendo Land would need to play with online players vs. local multiplayer. Adding a simple online component with the same gameplay that's already available would improve the overall experience of playing Nintendo Land. So just add it in and make your Wii U anchor game that much better.
Before it gets brought up, I see this as fundamentally different from the arguments we had with the IGN Wii team over the necessity of multiplayer in NSMBW. In that case, you're talking about a new entry in a classic single player game series. Just like Metroid Prime doesn't need online multiplayer, neither does Mario (I'd be happy to see it, but it ain't something that's necessary). These games in Nintendo Land are designed to be played in groups, though. They're perfect for online, as is. So, just do it Nintendo.
Heck, hjort, if it was online, you and I could take a break from debating right now and play it. Wouldn't that be something? I know I'd get tons more mileage out of Nintendo Land if that were the case.
EDIT: For the record, again, I don't think Nintendo Land is a bad game. To me, it's like the definition of a 3 star game. It's a game that could have been great or near great that simply misses too many opportunities for me to rate it any higher. That doesn't mean it's bad, though. I've loved playing Pikmin and Metroid, in particular.
"Who wants to play by themselves?" -My sister's reaction to the solo games in Nintendo Land.
I see her point, I think Nintendo Land's biggest issue is that only half the games are multiplayer. Some of them easily could have been at least 2 players, and the others probably should have been completely rethought as games anyway. It isn't just about the games being something unfamiliar, I think it also has less focus on multiplayer, which is not a good thing.
That said, whether it's unfortunate or not, Nintendo Land is still the best use of the GamePad to date. Like Wii Sports, Nintendo Land should be included in all Wii U bundles in addition to whatever other game is added. The Resort and NSMBWii bundles, for example, still had Wii Sports.
I also wonder if a Super Mario 3D World bundle would be a better seller than NSMBU, as I'm not so sure NSMB has been a system-seller since the original DS days. But then again, there's more profit to be made selling SM3DW separately, so I guess they're trying to make it more desirable by being separate.
I'd be pretty surprised if most people find the art style off putting. I mean, yes, it's not as simple as Wii Sports and that might cut down on its accessibility but you're the first person I've heard say that they find it aesthetically unpleasing. I'm sure plenty of people agree with you, but it's not the Mega Man box art.
@Jargon As I've said before Wii Sports was fun in the first 10 seconds, by yourself or with any number of people. This is why it became a cultural phenomena and convinced millions of people to buy Wiis.
Ultimately, I felt NL was a very strong game, and if it wasn't for Pikmin 3, it'd still be my favorite game on the Wii U, almost a full year later. There's plenty to do and I had a great time with almost all of the games, especially the surprisingly in-depth co-op ones.
Did it hit the crowd that Wii Sports did? Not really, but to its credit, there hasn't been a video game since NL that I've actually been able to play with my Wii-only casual-gamer friends/family either. Wii Sports was a phenomenon--it came at the perfect time and had a uniquely understandable hook (along with the Wii). NL is more of a standard video game, albeit one with a party atmosphere. But even though NL didn't capture that lightning in a bottle that WS did, I still feel it's a high-quality game (and for what it's worth, I think the animatronic art style looks superb, even if the palette is a bit garish at times).
Regardless of the Wii Sports angle, I still think NL showcases the Wii U's potential gameplay elements far better than NSMBU does. I fear that people who get the NSMBU bundle are gonna be a little underwhelmed with the GamePad, and might have a hard time figuring out why this is supposedly so much better than the Wii. I mean, the single-player experience in NSMBU hardly uses the pad at all, except to mirror the screen.
I agree with that but it has to be fun in the right way to be a hit with its intended audience. It doesn't matter if it is good or not to the audience Wii Sports drew in because that's not their concern. They wouldn't care for Last of Us either because it would seem too complicated for them to have any interest in. In that sense, Nintendoland probably should have been fun in the first 10 minutes or whatever.
Wii Sports was like that. Maybe Boxing wasn't as easy as the rest but all the other games though were incredibly pick up and play and could be enjoyed solo or with other people. The pick up and play nature was a huge contributor to its success.
Again, that doesn't say anything about Nintendo Land. The fun of Donkey Kong is mastering the course, you won't get much out of it if you play for a minute. You can't judge Zelda without beating even a single mission. Nintendo Land may be attempting to appeal to the same basic audience but it's not exactly the same type of game and even if it were, it would be ridiculous to say that every casual game needs to be able to be enjoyed under those circumstances or else it is "not fun".
Of course, you refuse to actually answer any questions or state anything definitively about Nintendo Land, so it's clear you're not approaching this discussion in good faith. Basically, you're being an annoying gnat, so I'm just going to ignore you.
The reason I don't state anything about Nintendo Land is simple: I haven't played it. I don't know if it is fun or not. What I can tell based on how it has been received is that it was nowhere near the juggernaut Wii Sports was. That was Nintendo's goal with this project. It didn't work. That doesn't mean that the game is bad though. It's like how Dredd was supposed to be a film to make money and revive the character. It didn't really do that but the movie itself is pretty good.
I am glad though that we have you to tell us when we aren't approaching discussions in good faith or are not worthwhile human beings. It keeps us abreast of ourselves.
Wii Sports still never felt like anything more than a compilation of tech demos to me... Some cheap, unpolished shit bundled in with the system so people had something to play out of the box, not unlike the stuff that came with the 3DS.
I have to wonder if Nintendo themselves weren't completely blown away by its long lasting popularity.
It would be pretty interesting if you would respond to what I'm actually saying, that deathly_hallows is in no position to label Nintendo Land as a not fun game, instead of random shit about Nintendo's goals.
As I said, I haven't played it. I have no idea how fun it is or isn't. I don't think d_h is completely off-base though saying it should have had more appeal in a short timespan if it was meant to follow in Wii Sports footsteps. You disputing that is where I entered in to this discussion. If you don't agree that's fine but it doesn't mean I have to sing the praises of a game I've never played.
But how many people were sold on Wii Sports playing it alone at a kiosk? It's a very social game. Like every other story I've heard was "I brought it to a family party and..." It's a total party game. I don't think people randomly playing it alone at a kiosk somewhere was the big selling point for that game either.
It is difficult to say as we are all pretty well versed gamers. You could probably get a sense of what any game is about in that time. With more casual gamers they didn't need much time to get acclimated to Wii Sports. The point is Wii Sports probably demoed better and that's the real issue at hand.